poles, polls, bit, running, race, good, gary, day, thought, gloves, grip, put, miles, nice, lucky, hand, week, ski, training, fast
James Moorcroft, Edwina Sutton, Gary Thwaites
Be over there. I have been using Leki products since we moved to the Alps. We use them the kids use them for skiing, and they have a different poll for every frickin ski turn that they do. I use them for skiing. I use them for my ski touring training. And I also use them for my training. So it was quite good. It's quite good, isn't it? Because I've I've used them for a long time. And I really rate the product and I rate their ski gloves. And now I know all about like travelling does but perhaps we should share too much is a very relaxed chat. And it's if you don't use polls, you will definitely want to use polls, I reckon after this. And James was yeah, I reckon you could you could give James a shout. If you ever wanted any advice about polls. He would. He's the guy but it's
not a sponsored show, but it's not. Today, we've been joined by James mu Croft from LEKI Awesome. Thanks for coming on the show today. James, we ask all our guests this. Where are you? What's the view from your window? I'm not too sure where that's gonna go look, and you're the backdrop. And have you been for one year?
I am in our office just outside candle sizer. The view is some nice hills and fields of sheep mostly. Most of them appear to be eating ice creams and under parasols because it's I think it was 34 degrees when I came in this morning which is a bit mad.
Can you imagine sheep Lake District sheep in this you'd be so confused
what is going on with my life? And I haven't been for a little bit of mobility this Morning, but let me say there was no chance I was going now I'm hiding.
You're hiding. Now you were a bit nervous because you were like, don't ask me about my running. Don't ask me about my running. So tell us a little bit about maybe your background how you got into this the polling game we can see behind you. Was it through sort of like athletic endeavours or is it something more work based,
I've always been very outdoorsy. So the outdoors was really my background. I've done a lot of climbing, I have done some running a lot of trekking skiing, you know, a bit of everything. I just kind of like being outside. So I got into the outdoor industry as it were, via that route. I've worked for a few brands. And then I've been working for lucky two, just over a year now. And so with moving into a industry that has a bit more of a running focus, I started to get myself into running a little bit more. I'm not a runner. Okay, I'm not built for running which for me this is this is not really the an industry I know that well apart a sport. I know that well. But I've I've given it a go. And I've I've really enjoyed it. I still love my fitness. And so I still do get out. But it's yeah, it's more casual than perhaps some of your other guests. I feel slightly out of my depth.
Yeah, CrossFit, you enjoy CrossFit. Is that correct?
I've just got into that six months ago. And that's, yeah, that's a level of fitness and activity that I've never realised that anyone could really do. So yeah, that's kind of opened a whole new whole new world for me. Is there
a big CrossFit scene in Kendall, the farmers there with the well so I
actually live over in the northeast, I've come over here, especially state to make sure that you can get a nice committed to the cause, isn't it? But yeah, the CrossFit, the CrossFit family is fantastic, really, really supportive. Everything from your top level athletes who what they can do is just ridiculous, all the way down to kind of, you know, numpties like me who come in and just enjoy beating ourselves up most evenings.
So we get back on back on track to start off about Leckie, again. I'm really interested. But I think it was very apparent on Friday my knowledge of running polls and Nikki as a brand is quite minimal. Could you share with me I'd love to know a bit more but and also our listeners a bit about Becky's history in sport. Yeah, absolutely. So
lucky, goes back a long way. So they were first making ski poles and trekking poles back in the early 60s. They've been known for putting together probably the best poles in the business for a really long time working with people like Reinhold Messner working with obviously, almost all of the best skiers in the industry now use Leki poles. And of course, we've seen that start to move into the trail running seat over the past number of years. And now we are in a very lucky position, very fortunate position where quite a few of the best runners in the world are using our products, which is quite nice, because it does make me selling it to runners and selling it to shops very easy, because when they're getting results that they're getting with the help of the products, they're behind me. People notice that you know, and when you've used a set of Lucky polls for the first time, you do understand why Lucky is what Lucky is. So they've got a couple of really real key things that they aim for every year, they want to have a new development come out. So there's always something new. And because they only made polls, and then the gloves that go with the polls for your ski gloves and bits and bobs like that, it means that all of their money that they can put into r&d goes back into polls and back into that ecosystem. Okay, so the level of investment in that and the level of technology, the quality of the materials, bits and pieces like that. It's kind of second to none. And so that's why we're getting that bio from athletes.
I'm very, very new to pause, it's seems to have all happened that he may be in about a six week period, I've gone from never using them to thinking about it
to scratch an opinion on them. You're one of those people I've never used now have an opinion. And I pretty much got my YouTube video out and
we're now I'm literally about to run 100 miles with these polls, which are gonna say I'm probably pretty inexperienced. But why would someone like me or our listeners, why would they? Why would they possibly use polls?
So there's a number of reasons really. When you're talking about using poles as Well Gary, you of course you are the prime example of what everyone should be doing just for a race which is pick up a new piece of kit and head straight to the race with your new piece of kit.
I don't want to kind of humblebrag it's abnormal brag, but I didn't come second in a race I use poles.
That's exactly it like that's, that's the point. You pick up certain things. You get it just about right and they
Gary you are fully sponsored already. add these up, stick them up and I was second I didn't know training.
Yeah, guaranteed success,
shake, and I picked up my polls and
they they're a bit of a game changer really poles, everyone's had to experience something that way your wheels have come off in a race, everyone's had that experience where perhaps the elevations been a little bit more than you're anticipating or for some reason you've not kept up the admin quite right and your legs just give out and we'll using a set of polls, it engages a whole series of other muscle groups in your body. And so over any extended distances, your legs, then aren't taking as much of a beating as they would. When I went I'm doing training in shops and bits and bobs like that with the staff to try and try and get the staff on board. I always take a set scales with me. And it's not. It's not because I'm an awful person. Okay. I don't like to go into just shave me, what do you have for breakfast? What I, what I'm trying to get them to do is just have a, have a stand on the scales. And just remember what the weight says I'm not gonna look, no one is gonna look. Okay, now take this set of polls, do it again, and push through the poles as though you're going uphill, and you're giving it a decent crack. Most people are hitting between 10 and 20 kilos off those scales, as soon as they start to push down. Yeah. So is the fastest Weight Watchers diet.
So when I go to a party tonight, and I'm taking the poll.
Do you take scales with you though, because
I've done a lot, you know, after we chatted on this on the scale. And even without really applying force, just kind of restless for wrestling, they're taking the weight of your arms, there was a few pounds just immediately without even any application of force. Yeah, definitely confirm that.
So that then sort of feeds into something we talked about which is, which is perceived effort. And perceived effort is a weird thing, because nobody really talks about perceived effort. perceived effort is kind of this strange thing that lacking maybe made up for that I can then I can then explain this. But the idea being that whilst using your polls, you are probably putting a little bit more effort into that. Because you've engaged this whole muscle group up here, you've started pushing down in every step. But your perceived effort how you feel, at the end of that race and 20 miles, 30 miles, 100 Miles is going to be lessened where your legs are going to feel better, you are probably going to have gone a little bit quicker as well. Using the poles will open up your stride length. So and this does take practice. I would I need to do a little caveat in here. It's a lot of practice, you're not going to go out on your first time with poles and go, This feels completely natural. I wonder why I have never used four legs before. But as you practice, as you get more used to it, your your stride length will increase, your cadence is probably going to slow down ever so slightly. And so you are going to go a little bit quicker over those distances, which of course is then linked back into well, if you've got fresher legs 30 miles into a race, of course, you're gonna go a little bit quicker. The final key point of why you would choose to use polls in a race, you have a 5% reduction in foot pressure. But obviously your feet take so much care, like they take such a battering as you're going over these distances, and over rough terrain, or just taking that 5% out over an extended period of time is enormous. I have a little stat. I don't know how official it is. But we've kind of done the maths. So if anyone from LEKI is actually watching this, I am sorry. But we we've worked out that it's roughly over a 10 mile period on average two tonnes out of your legs and feet.
Can you imagine that? Do you do in always turn it back to the leg. And under any conversation I've got now moved on to the bunk room, we've got the leg but it's 20 turns you know, on average, you know, obviously everyone is different. Everyone has slightly different mechanics. But if you can get somewhere quick, even half of that. I would I would think I would I will say two weeks time if I'll reap the rewards of that reduced tonnage. It's quite staggering. So yeah, potentially 20 tonnes over 100 mile races. I noticed that
you're definitely going to notice it, especially some of my sort of weight. I'm, I am 96 kilos, I think I weighed myself the other day, which is, you know, it's creeping on out there. But I will notice that over that period, if I can engage muscles that take away from my legs, it just makes a massive difference and I've done it like I'm very rarely go out for a run these days without my poles which maybe it's cheating on every single room maybe
even didn't like the perceived effort at night chat a few weeks ago maybe about the state law, big pierce that maybe for 100 mile race, I'm figuring I've got reserve in the tank anaerobically. So that's my
efficiency as well barriers that you're not your whole body isn't used to working like that going uphill. And so it's working slightly harder going, well hang on a second, I'm going to put them the blood round my upper half as well now, whereas the more that you practice it, it will just be like, Okay, we're switching into polling mode. Now,
what I thought was really good, some of the circles are steep hill, and I just didn't have the energy in the legs, maybe to push, but I really had the energy and force in my arms to kind of take up that load. And it really did propel you up the hill faster. So yeah, it's quite, it's super interesting how
it was. And back, we like talking about shoulders and back. I know, I know, we've had conversations, Gary about keeping those arms nice and straight, when we've been out. When you're talking about arms, what we've tried to get people doing is just keeping the arms a little bit straighter, closer to where you would be in a ski position, because actually, the muscle groups up here and down your back are just much larger. So you know, that's, I want to keep,
I do that as well. And like, you've got to make the box, make the box in front of you, and then grow through the box. Because if you just make a little patch in front of you, you're not actually using those big back muscles, which is what you want to be taking over the load and the shoulders on the front of the shoulder. But if you make the box enough that or a bubble, enough of you, and then you just push through it, that's the simplest tip that I always say to people to say this is the same tip I do when people are scared of heights and bridges and like just make the box and all you think about is the box around, you don't think about the 2000 metre drop either side. But it's the same with the polling is make your box and you might make the box a different size according to the steepness of the terrain. But just make sure you've got that gap. And it's a good way also of effort level is that if you if you make the small, if you make too small a box, you're actually using your legs more to push through. And you're almost falling out of the the effort of the polling. Whereas if you make it just the right size, the legs can keep that effort the same effort all the way through. If you make it too big, you lose it because you've lost it out the window basically, that's my completely.
I like it.
That's how Yeah, that's how I what I've learned. And I've used poles now for seven years in all my sports, and but I think it's taken me about and I think people should be aware of this, if they everybody should have I think should have poles in their lives for some point for for any sort of terrain, which is hilly or technical or multi days, there is a there's a time in your journey as an ultra runner where polling is going to be the right thing for you. But as Gary sort of alluded, you've got to work at it. And it takes time to build up the muscles and to build up the technique. Even though there isn't like there's not like it's not really tricky technique. It's more just a sort of learned skill. It's a bit like what swimming, golf, you know, learning that technique until it just becomes now I just put the poles don't even think about it. Just
learning the technique. The thing is, when you've been running, generally you've you've spent hours hundreds of hours. Absolutely refining your cadence, absolutely refining the way you run out of certain terrain. Having poles is going to throw that slightly out of whack. Because it does change your cadence ever so slightly. So you need to be prepared to just rethink ever so slightly the way you're doing things. And as you know, just practice, practice, practice, you'll get that everyone gets that. And when you do you get all of those benefits, which are spoken about
as a runner. I kind of snip out tags in race vests and stuff like that to get everything later. But we chatted about this on Friday with polls necessarily. It's not always the lightest poll is the best. How would you advise somebody you know, I'm quite small frame guy, but somebody could be six foot five will be both rush for the lighest polls, or would you advise maybe a different type of pole for smaller the bigger frame?
Yeah, so there are certain things to think about. There are certain things to think about. And I've got a really nice selection polls just here behind me these ones I prepared earlier. And this is the new range for 2022. So this is all the stuff that's out at the moment. There are there are different things to think about. You want to think about firstly, how tall and heavy are you how much load are you going to be putting through those polls? Because for someone like myself, as I say at 96 kilos, I'm about six foot. If I'm using this super light, which is very, very thin. really lightweight Paul, there's going to be quite a lot of flexing that and we've carbon, carbon can snap, okay. However, am I going to be getting the benefit by going as lightweight as possible? Whereas if I had About 13 grammes on, I then go on to something a little bit chunkier. And you can see the difference between those. So there's probably about a two millimetre difference around the actual shaft itself, that is going to make a massive difference in terms of the amount of load I can put through the pole. So first thing to think about is kind of how much load you put into that pole. If you are someone who's going to be really cranking down on them, I'd probably look for something like this, which is the Ultra Trail FX one. And that's going to take a little bit more punishment. However, Gary, for yourself, when you are slightly smaller frame than me, you're perhaps gonna be looking at the old show FX on superlight, which is more perhaps performance focused. In terms of just the way it's put together, you remove as much as possible, you know, to go as light and as fast as you can. Yeah, I have a lot of other things that I can lose before I started needing to shave that many brands.
Yeah. And then always send some of those poles the grid will longer on some of them, and some of them are short. Is there a reason why that would be the case. So yes,
there's a bit of functionality difference in the grip itself, to take the straps off TVs. So a little bit of functionality difference in the grip itself. So you can see on here, we've got one with a slightly shorter grip and one with an extended foam grip. And these are all foam by the way, none of them are cork they've been printed to look like cork. Foam is foam is more thermodynamically appropriate for running allows you to wick sweat away a bit a bit easier.
They not actually cork.
No, I thought I was
using mine for years.
I'm sure any of us will have been caught. But this year, everything's okay. I
was like, God, I really, that's cool.
I have a look at them. Because if you've got a call
to get my Now you keep talking
pretty convincing. I think I was about a foot away from it on Friday. And I still thought it was cool. It was
a good print, it looks really good. But for the extended grip itself is if you're going over difficult terrain, going over technical terrain, something steep or some sort of traverse, it gives you different places in which you can actually place your hand on the grip. Yeah.
And it's super easy, like you just clipped out there one a couple of seconds and then you're ready to go in in a different grip.
That's that's the thing, really where we're seeing, we're seeing the records kind of tumble. I mean, Courtney daughter got her nicer record the other day for us, didn't she so so that's all over our social media. So we are seeing these, these athletes just smashed records, we're seeing them do fantastic things. And of course it stands out. But it's complete data. But we get to say that has something to do with us.
I wouldn't have please have done too much. Any 100 My rear, so lots of the longer goes, there's more variance. And one thing, which is super important is like managing yourself. And if something that you have to do, like eat, you're not doing as much because your poles are a nightmare to get on and off and get to your nutrition. Yeah, then yeah, I wouldn't underestimate how much that played in the wrist.
Yeah, so this is what we're talking about here is betrayal shock system. So for those of you who are watching, you can see that I've got this strap on my hand. For listeners, it's like a mesh strap that sits when you have the whole race. And I'm sure a lot of you have seen these at races, people wearing these like black or grey with like a luminous outside strap that just sits on their hand or race. The idea being that this is something that just stays on and allows you to very quickly with a little loop in between your thumb, thumb and your forefinger, clip in and out of your pole. As fast as as fast as you can imagine, rather than feeding your hand through a strap, and then putting the weight through that. The other benefits of having the the sharp grip, the grip itself, the strap is it spreads the load further over the hand. So, you know, doing these distances, blisters are obviously a massive issue for team in your hand is a massive issue if you're hanging onto a set of poles that whole time. So if you can spread that load if you can make it more comfortable. And if you can allow your hand to stay more relaxed as you're pushing through and putting that power through the poll. That's going to massively improve your performance. And again, it's that perceived perceived intensity. It's the it's it's just your enjoyment on the day, you don't want these things to be causing you any sort of nuisance. So
the last thing you want is is a blister on your hand. In your mind maybe on your feet you know it's funny enough on your feet, but then it's like bloody hell I got a blister on my hand now because
I know you spent money on poles and then you've got blisters all over your hands because of the and you wouldn't
I have a bone to pick with lucky about those gloves though. When you've got so I'm going to be doing the spine in next winter, which is the Pennine Way in the middle of winter, and I'll be taking my trusty friends with me. Then I'm going to have massive mittens winter mittens on. And I'm going to have to be faffing with the glove going. You tell me, tell me
to buy some lucky winter mittens. Are they waterproof? So we do a range
of winter trail running, trail running. Okay,
all range of trail running gloves. So there's a selection of fingerless running gloves, which we use in summer. And what they do is they spread the load even further beyond see if it is unbelievably comfortable. And then they do like lobsters and Thermomix. And all this kind of stuff. I never
knew this James on with the little strap on here. But I know about the little they know about the little claw because the kids were lucky gloves from when they're born here. Because then they don't have they're called dragons in France, they bid the bid the draft, and then and then every time you get off a chairlift, they have to you have to wait while they do that, you know, and it's minus 18. So we always throw money at them, because they're not cheap at the Lekki ski gloves, because then they've just got that little bit there. And they come in and out, and you're off and they're gone. And they do last. That is what I do love about the Lekki products and is that they last and they last so the kids gloves, my eldest skied and his lucky gloves for three years before they fell apart, and considering they ski for 20 plus hours a week. I think that's a pretty good that's pretty good that they've survived. Yeah, it's pretty good and they stayed warm. That's the biggest thing is that they've stayed warm for years the light cleaner on them. Okay, I never knew that about another UK stockists for the travelling gloves.
Yes, so have a look online, you'll be able to find some UK stock is the trailer and gloves. And it is something that is kind of this hidden secret is this.
Because I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Because I, I love I'll definitely be using the polls for the whole race, they'll be in my hand, but then different pairs of gloves, you know, you sort of lose the benefit of a glove as soon as you change, like sticking something over it as well. It's the sort of thing that after three or four days could you know, or I just gonna end up losing them because I'll be trying to change my glove. They'd lucky colourful go, and I'll be like, Oh, I don't know, I lost it somewhere. It's somewhere on Aliens.
Which wouldn't be ideal. Not really feeling like that.
Lots of people I get asked a lot about how sizing What size should I buy, because a lot of people would have been trying to buy Leki poles and especially in like the last year with COVID and stuff online. And I know that Lekki have also had a bit of problems with maybe like everybody distribution and trying to find the good stuff. But I
do my job. Yeah,
I'm really sorry about that. But if people are so people are looking to try out polls to try out what size works best for them, what is the best bit of advice that you can give them.
So if you ski it's dead easy,
because I always say to people as well.
I know that's not everybody and I know it's a very privileged kind of place to be in if you do get to go skiing, so I totally understand that. But you're going for pretty much the ski size. The ideal is as you are stood straight, you want to be able to put the pole next to your foot and have a right angle at your elbow. So that's where you should set.
So for me, I'm a five foot six and a half I always say five foot seven. I so I have a 115 skico average an average build average lady average call height but
for the pink as well. I'm really pleased to go for the pink. Or only,
I mean, honestly my little girl thinks this is the best ski pole in the world. I think it was probably more than the 115
I think as well though, isn't it? It's more
though I tell you what I would have gone for I'd have preferred a sort of Sky Blue myself. Wiki don't lose. But if you drop your pole in snow in the dark in down a cliff which I've done I've dropped it down compasses all sorts. You can find it if it's pink. So the only thing it needs is a bit of reflection in light. I'd say lucky turning in the night vehicles, anything if that had a bit of reflection
off. I'll feed that one back
a couple of pairs that's fine. I'll take it Okay, so if you're looking for the sizes, yes keeper or else what else can people do?
So there is a size chart online. So if you went onto the Lekki website you'll be able to find a size chart, which gives you pretty much exactly where you need to be. I would I would recommend measuring out from books to right angle of your hand, just get a tape measure, get a stick, measure out, see, see what that looks like. Most shops that do tracking stuff will have a set of tracking polls as well. And those will be adjustable. So you could get an idea of you know what size you should be at via that. But yeah, on the whole unless you're doing VK, or unless you've got a preference, which is way out there, which some people do some people like a really short but poll, some people like a really long pole, the standard place to go is a right angle of the elbow. Super simple, the
nice. The nice thing about the lucky pole is the length of the handle. So I use the micro Trail Pro. And the length of the handle with the foot what was cook minus Cook is, is now foam is that you can change your grip for really steep on top of the handle. And then you can go right down to lower. So it might be a bit different when you're running downhill as well. That you might be holding your pole a bit lower than you would be at the top on really steep stuff. And it because it's got such a long handle, you've always got a bit of grip, wherever you are, and then a nice smooth bit at the top for what I would call sort of your endurance grip at the top where you're going to be holding it for most of the time. It's super comfy, and it's got a slightly larger grip, so your hand can be quite relaxed. Whereas when it goes a bit narrower down well, you might be gripping on more going down the hill for a bit more plant based. Can we talk a little bit about scaring off the script a bit, Gary, but a bit about how you look after your poles. Yes. I lost a pair of weren't lucky. I'm really sorry. My first poll. My first foray into polls, I thought I used a different brand and they died on me because I left them up like that. A basically couldn't then get them apart. Can you tell us a little bit because I think that's the sort of thing as well that people don't know. And they might spend a lot of money on a really nice poll and then leave them
I would have just left them on putting them down now you've shamed me.
Yeah, I mean, it's a really good point. Because these are, these are really expensive pieces of kit, you're gonna be hard pressed to find a pair of shoes that comes out. Or pretty much most of you running kit, really, that they're gonna last you
I hope I never replace, they are going to last.
What we would always recommend is, after pretty much any time you've taken them out, make sure they're folded down afterwards. So you know, nice and easy to fall down. If it's been a wet, muddy claggy kind of day out on the hill, we'd get a damp cloth and just wipe the ends that can connect lips together. Never use any grease, never use any lubricants never use anything like that, which does happen. Is that something you've done I think that
button at the top gets a bit sticky. Okay, so before a race I was put a little bit of a little bit of WD 40 on the button. Okay. No. Yeah. myself to press it,
probably not gonna kill the polls. We we as a brand, say like no Lukens, no grease, nothing like that. And it's only because it just it makes it a bit too slippery. In terms of the the holding on, you know, if stuffs on that, there's a good chance that slide. Thankfully, for the fixed length folding poles, like mostly rolling poles, it's not as much of an issue when you start to get into the stuff with a variable length. So you've got the speed locks, we do get these returned to us because people say that they no longer hold, and we have a look. And they've perhaps put some lubricant of some sort on that section that allow it to travel a bit smoother. And then they don't understand why it won't drip anymore. So yeah, we try to suggest no matter where possible, it's as easy as done cloth cleaner for the mud, leave them somewhere, leave them so much dry on the hole, keep them out of the sun, keep them out of the heat, heat and sun can cause the glues to expand and bits and bobs like that. And that can cause you some issues. We get so few of these returned to us. Every now and again they snap because carbon fibre is a performance focused and very lightweight, fragile material. So there is a chance they'll snap so in terms of looking after them when you're actually out on the hill. And this feeds a little bit into pole etiquette, which is a really enjoyable thing to talk about.
About that then I'm
sorry what happens if the cord down the middle snaps Is there a way to to maintain them?
So there is and it is send it back to your retailer who then gets in touch with us and we can repair them. So we it's a bit like brain surgery. Actually you have to get a tool right up inside. Yeah, tailoring part is tricky to do on the new remodels coming in from it should be coming in quite soon really, we are going to have a replaceable section. So it's going to make it much more replaceable as part of our commitment. As part of our commitment to the environment, we we always focus on repairing the product. If something breaks, if something goes wrong, we will do everything we can to repair that product rather than see it end up in landfill. And so that's a big part of what Lucky's done for decades now is always repairing everything. And then
Mankey stinky ski gloves back from my oldest Flamingo, literally just didn't last said the only time my lucky paws have let me down is when I ran through the night with them. And it was minus temperatures and they froze. And I could not do them to store them. The only thing and I would think but if people are in that situation where they are like just carried on, I just carried on carrying them because there was nothing that I could do. And I guess there's nothing that you can do against that apart from putting them down earlier. Before they froze
in your armpit maybe not want to hide before freezing together that's
freezing. Because it was a button actually at the top the button froze. Okay, maybe that maybe it might be something too. Yeah, but I hadn't thought about putting them under my armpit. But I did have to then carry them until I got rid of them for a while. But again, it's not the end of the world cold conditions
is an important one because cold conditions carbon fibre doesn't like in cold conditions, there is more of a chance of them breaking. And this is where we can talk about different materials that these running poles come in. If primarily you were running in cold conditions, we would probably recommend you to get something a little bit more durable like an aluminium pole is going to take a bit more of a beating in cold conditions. Yeah, carbon fibre comes in quite brittle in the cold. And you will see that if you catch the bottom section on a rock, or you drop them off, something like that there is more of a chance they'll snap. They are very much like a sports car. You know, they are fantastic. They go really fast. But unless you're really looking after them, and unless you're maintaining them and taking care then there's a good chance you can do some damage. So yeah,
look after them. I
love them in and chat with the shoe shoe shoe shows that we had, I think the Innovate guys, I clean my shoes religiously now and we tend to get dirt you know, so anything like that, I love it.
And I think as well if you really love a piece of kit, like my lucky poles, not not just my trail running poles like they save my bacon almost every long run. And also my ski touring ones, the ski touring ones have a x basically or the bottom bit they have like the spike, it's actually Gary you could actually like cut chicken with it. It's like so sharp but they honestly they saved my life in the winter, I'm going up something really icy and scary. So I think of a bit of kit you know a bit of kit you almost love it like a child
of some of the feedback we get quite a lot from people who use their lackeys as they just love them. They just absolutely love them. It's their favourite piece of kit. And it's so rare that anyone's going to lend you their lackeys, if they're going to lend you a set of polls, they'll lend you a different set of polls.
Holding the polls like this as well reminds me that if you're if you're a slightly like this is becoming like a sales pitch, or like it always was going to be if I was involved in it. But then when you put them together like that, if you've got a short bit of running, if you're doing maybe a trail race where you've got Klein, and then you've got to do a little bit of running and then a bit more climb, holding them in your hand. They are really, really small, they go down really small. And if you actually hold them at the end, it's almost like you haven't got them in your hand. Whereas some other brands they don't. They're a bit more clumpy when you hold them together. So that's another really nice thing about lucky and because the handle so long as well, wherever you hold them, you can you're actually holding them on the handle as well. So Gary, if you've got a bit were you actually going to collapse them but you don't want to put them in your storage in a comeback.
We were going to ask you this. It depends on the race depends on the belt.
It's my opinion at the moment.
I am if I'm doing like a 30 40k race, I will just told them if I collapse them at all. And whether if I'm doing something longer I go for the old, the old quiver. I really like that I find that really easy to get them out. I don't like them around my waist because I worry that I'm going to fall on them on my back. If they're on my back I worry that when I fall going downhill when I land on them.
Yeah, I can see that because some
points where you got to squeeze through a little gap on a wall. So yeah, maybe I would take them out if they're on Hold back, if they're in my waist belt or take them off, I
just find the quiver like I've never had any problem getting them in and out. Whereas with the waist pack when I get tired or my fingers get caught, you know, when your fingers get a bit swollen, when you've been running for so long, you lose the dexterity in them. And so I do find the back putting them in the back. And I don't use mine, hugely on the downhill racing for shorter stuff for longer stuff. Gary, you probably like for 100 mile I keep them out because you're not moving at such speed. Are you going downhill you just want you're actually using them to save your knees on the downhill breaking. That breaking.
No, I move on. I'm a waist belt guy as well. I love the waist belt. I love it fit so snugly and they bounce so little you forget they're there if they're packed away, but actually, when I leave the car, like I'm the lucky nerd on it. So I leave the car and I've got my lucky balls out and then really put them away.
Because yeah, I say that to people like if you've got them use them. Really. You might as well, you know just carrying them.
Yeah, otherwise, it's inexpensive carbon, about how lightweight they are. If you're just going to carry them, they actually in addition to the way you've been taken for your race 100% Yeah, make the most out of using them when you've got
Yeah, I do often put them away as well. And probably why I don't want to bet as well as if I've got to scramble the climb, I like to have my hands out. And so that's again where like the pivot because it's quite quick. I find putting them in a backpack a bit. So if I was just thinking like when I'd put them away stuff i i know i've got a bit of hands go either going up or going down. Quick, put them away
with the terrain is probably the best place to be putting them away. Because but lots
of the people I read race around here, they'll keep them out. And I'm like, oh, have you met? How have you managed to get out that with the polls. Like, I like to be able to feel my death before it happens. Talk a bit about Connecticut before we finish off today.
Oh, that's a good. So poetica is something which people talk about it, but maybe not in those terms, quite a lot of races. We've all seen the new messes where you are very concerned that someone's eyes gonna be dangling off the end of that poll any minute.
Any big European races and you know, people use them as weapons.
It's just terrifying. It's actually terrifying. So, I mean, you need to go out with some sort of bulletproof sunglasses on to get you through those first few miles whilst the packs nice and tight. But we want people to start, start just using them sensibly as out on the hill, if you're going over a style, especially with the straps, okay, because the straps themselves as I'm putting in here, he told me from Friday about this. Because I just got through the pole basket, that video went over a style with them still strapped. With this, if I'm then trying to go over a style, immediately the poll is flapping around, and it's up in the air and it's in people's faces. And it's a really dangerous place to have it. If you're going over a style, if you're going through a gate, if you're going over a bridge where there's lots of gaps in the bridge, you know, and you don't want to damage your pole. Unclip is the easiest thing in the world to do, unclip, hold it so that the tips facing down towards the ground. And as you are folding and unfolding your pole, it's easiest thing just to fold them. So the tips facing downwards, you know, you can do it so quickly. It's so efficient, because efficiency is the key to why these are built the way they're built. So bringing them back out as well. Nice and easy to just fold them with the tips facing down towards the ground. If everybody did that, then nobody would be terrified of poles at races, everyone would just be like, Oh, everyone's got poles and they're wonderful with it. You know,
also, if your poles are facing behind you like like some sort of 90 degrees, you're not using them properly, because all of that energy is going out the back door. So if you've ever and you have if you've ever started CCC or UTMB, or any of those big races are Sorry, man, but you're the worst at this and their poles are flying out the back and you're like almost bashing them down. Well, they're not using their poles, right. But I know a lot of people as well use their poles that start races maybe I do as well to give themselves a little bit of space almost is like
social distancing sticks, they've been really good in code.
I like that tip down again, there's something I've never even thought of is to take them down with the tip.
It's just a mitigating risk, isn't it? It just it just helps people out. Again to Yeah, it's a really good habit. Because it just it's one of those things. If you can practice it that way, then you don't have to think about it when you're exhausted at 90 miles, you know, because that's just the way it happened.
Last question from me, asking for a friend who wants to use polls in his first race. How long before before your race? Should you start looking at putting poll polling into your into your training plan? How long do you think it takes you to sort of get to grips with using polls?
Definitely depends on who it is, doesn't it go. But I would say, probably six weeks is a good place to start. It gives you enough time to be getting out quite a lot, and you're still probably doing some slightly longer runs in your training then as well, and it will give you time to do it. I had this conversation with a gentleman who bought some poles from me back before Christmas, and he's training for the Lakeland. I think he's doing the 100 and he's bought them before Christmas that you could have basically more than six months worth of practice with them. That's, that's kind of a nice place to be, ya know, you're going to be efficient, you know, you're going to know exactly where your placement is, you're going to build up that muscle base in your upper body as well, so that you're going to be getting the most out of them. But as has been evidenced, you can pick them up two days for a race guy and get settled. So
I think Gary, I don't know if you found this, but a lot of the a lot of the it's not just the polling action. It's also then what you do with the polls, when you want to eat when you want to drink when you want to get to a checkpoint, you want to put your coat on when you want to take all those little things that take a bit of practice. And that puts people off using polls because they're like, I couldn't eat because I was like you only with one hand practice, use the practice. And it's all about pack efficiency as well about where you're putting stuff in your pack. So if I'm really left handed, like I'm so left handed, that I can't do much else with my right hand. So I know that I'm just gonna put my polls on my right hand, and I'm gonna have my food or I can reach it in my left hand except but it all takes practice so that you don't even then. And now I'm obviously the only patients anyone says that because I don't even think about it. It just happens. And, and that's another great thing about the Lekki. The trailrunning poses, but because they're so light, and so easy to carry that they they're light. And so if you put both of them in one hand, it's pretty easy. Like under you know, if you're doing a really long race and you're under your armpit, if you're going into a checkpoint or whatever,
you fold them down first, and you
just take everyone's eyes out that
race they play.
I'll put the sharp bits going into the chat, boy. Give me tailwind. Please. Good.
Yeah, I was lucky. You know, I think I've been super fortunate I never had that was a worry that all of a sudden my shoulders would start screaming my triceps would start screaming. And that never happened for me. But yeah, for somebody else, it might be the case. And if you literally got them on the you know, you've ordered some polls three weeks before race. And then you go out with them. And it's like, I mean, absolutely. I've got serious Dom's on my shoulder and that might put you off from actually using them.
Though it takes me when I moved from skiing to running and I moved from I put the poles into my running action. For the first time I always get sore kneecaps because I think I stride up the hill a bit more. And so I think I do a bigger stride with the poles. And the same with the going down. I think I go down slightly differently with the poles and always for the first couple of weeks, my knees are a bit so weird, probably doing something wrong. If something hurts, there's something wrong but it goes away
is definitely kneecaps, but
it's just old age.
The advice is as long as as long as possible, really six weeks, as long as possible. The more time you have practising
with them, the better you're going to be, the better you're gonna feel and the more comfortable it's going to be using it on that race. But for any piece of kit,
if you have access to a gym, and you've you know, if you live in London, you're like, I don't really want to go polling Ranbaxy Park, I'm going to look like a right tool.
If you want a 1000s. If you if you've
got access to a gym, and there's a ski Ergo in the gym, the action of pulling down that ski Ergo is quite similar and using the same back muscles as as polling. So yeah, if you do like five or 10 minutes warm up before we do strength or whatever, three or four times a week, couple of times a week, just using that will definitely help with the modelling thing
to look at in terms of training is Nordic walking, which is, yeah, it gets a bad rap. That's a bad rap. But actually, in terms of the technique you're going to use over the 100 mile race. Very few of us are going to run the entirety of 100 mile race.And if you've got really good nordic walking technique, I almost guarantee you're gonna go quicker than majority of people trying to jog along with their poles, because you can really power through and the placement of the poles from that feeds into everything you're going to do in terms of running the poles later on. So you know if you can find someone who's going to teach you to nordin walk, it's a really good starting point for doing those long races with polls. But unfortunately, you just get out with them go up and down steps with them go up and down. They can Now path like just the outside with the poles and get used to that motion and that's gonna be the best thing that you're going to be able to do
and a percent agree with that great advice. Thanks for staying with us James. We always end with a quick five questions. You've answered one of these but I'll ask it again just to refresh our listeners. Right. Your favourite Leki poll of choice what would you go for a run with?
What would I go out for a run with I go out for a run with the Ultra Trail FX 1 with trail eautiful new grip on the top Look at that. See I didn't even have to get a set of these no go upgrade your one
you have a favourite pole North Pole South Pole.
South Pole penguins
Yeah. For the Christmas lives.
Oh no. Lapland Finland is from Friday got to get over that. Do you prefer to run uphill or downhill with the poles
with my poles is that the caveat uphill?
Yeah. Yeah, cats or dogs are not the answer this
on the podcast
on a on a pub quiz style question. It's not the kind of pubs I normally frequent would ask this question but do you know and this is opinion actually it's not necessarily fact that's both but do you know who the fifth most famous Polish musician is? Easy question.
Most famous Polish musician.
No, no, it's legit Yeah, actually, I was quite impressed we would
we did look up most famous Polish person but we couldn't pronounce their name so then we this is the second most famous but
this person was second on the list but yeah, Frederick Chopin.
Oh, of course. Oh, yeah. No, I should have got that.
Does he have a statue in every village? Or was that the other guy?
That was your guy? Yes. That's your place your damn Pope John Paul the second I think he was on the list of top 10
I don't think he was a famous musician. No, no, no, but this nice weekend wasn't very good.
Cool. That's it for me. Thanks a lot for your time today James I really enjoyed it. Yeah, hopefully our listeners loads little tips there maintenance
as well. We were I was asking James just before best place to go and buy lucky polls. And the best thing to do is just google your most local distributor and go along to them and then they can also advise you on sizing and try them out as well much better do that then buy them off at the Internet where you can
get all of them this way are we talking about what I'm going to hold my applause I will be on my third poor belt because of sizing issues on online retailers So yeah, if you can physically on pick them up and plant them on the floor and see if you making that 90 degrees and not second guessing what internet sizes give you. That'll be great. Thanks, guys
I hope you all enjoyed that pole chat. Lots of poleing. If you use polls, yeah, we should start a Facebook poll. Facebook called these goals. Do you want to know an interesting stat on the Lekki Instagram page six of the top seven finishers at hardrock were using Lekki poles so that says something about the product doesn't it? He's also poles on the market. I mean, I do think that because as James said Lekki they all they working on is poles and the gloves basically isn't it all the money that they get all their investing all that they're looking at is just poling. I wouldn't
excuse it. Yeah, if so you do have brands like say Salomons, ultimate direction and probably a few other brands. They do pause but I wonder if they see a Harrier too. I wonder if they like say Leki would do the whole r&d and everything. I wonder if say Solomon or Ultimate Direction just farm it out to a factory that do pules them branded as as their product. Yeah, I don't know. But I want to do things for knees. Hadrian's
carry this? By the way when you said Hadrian's Wall on the podcast, it sounded like Hadrian's Wall. And I feel a bit dumb, frankly. English accent of Hadrian's Wall.
Your accent gets picked up by the subtitles on YouTube. Mine is just all over.
What the hell was that?
Sorry, I didn't mean to pick on you,
Gary. Anyway, yeah, give us a shout out. Let us know if you do use polls if you like polls, your experience of polls. And yeah, hope that was useful in some way to somebody listening.
What have we got coming up, Eddie? Well, one of
your I reckon this could be on your bucket list to the Kennet and Avon canal race starts on Friday 145 miles. I wonder if this would be slightly more scenic than the G UCR.
UCI has got this cute assassin it's the kind of flagship marquee
you should have a season of doing the mall or the canals.
I really would you know funding for this kind of V 50 trying to do as well as possible as a VP League. Yeah, I definitely would have a go the canyon canal next year. I think it's too for me and my age and politics too close to the lake 100
Oh, for sure. What else?
Yeah, don't cost half marathon in the Northeast. It's really this you know, years and years ago, the east coast of England with all its mines was not a really scenic bit of coastline or just lots and lots of coal butts in soil. All that industry has gone to see their local coastlines really, really soon. And now it's like lots of nature reserves. And yeah, this one starts at cm and then runs all the way down to Kremlin and trail outlaws. It used to be I think, a National Trust event. But now trail outlaws are managing it. So yeah, that'd be awesome. Hopefully the weather is not too hot. I don't think I think the forecast is easing a bit. But I think it's funny as a kid. We go Holiday Inn and crimson which seemed like another world when I was seven year old
dad exotic about
six miles away.
Do you remember the journey? away?
Yeah, yeah, it's quite good. My auntie had a caravan there. And we just thought she'd like secret millionaire or something like that. And I was like, made it but now as a grown up, it's not as exotic as I remember. But yeah, best of luck, everybody. So how's your week panning out?
What's good what we got coming up, right? Okay, well, I've got my head around the chart, the children's activities I've got. This is just got one just just come back. Listen to what he did. He did ski training but physique ski physique. So they did took the mountain bikes down to the Aadesh 45 degrees. So I was so funny hearing all these weather reports and I might I'd let my 11 year old child go off. He was cycling between 30 and 45k a day on a mountain bike on a rock Max in 45 degrees plus camping, so he's just sleeping in a tent. No. He said, Mommy, I didn't take a shower. I just have to sit on the dirt for the whole week. So we had a had a few little Yeah, it was really really hard. Really really hot hot like is literally come back a scrap it as I call him shadow. After four days, he was like we're gonna go kayaking. We're not biking today. We're doing kayaking our site. Don't need to worry about that day. Okay, great. Have a great time. Seven hours or kayaking? Oh, my goodness. How is the tie act all the way down. So they drove them up basically up the river and they connect all the way back down to his campaign. Anyway, hardcore when you're 11. And then yesterday, I thought was coming home in the afternoon. He was like, crikey, you know, I've done it. And then they took them on a little sneaky 30k bike ride in the morning. But the height so it's like, did it he was great, amazing.
Grownups and just collect a lot of
croissant for breakfast and off you go for your 40k bike ride. That's it. No snacks, nothing. And but he came back. What was the highlight of the trip? What was that she's done all that his case looks like he's only 11 looked after himself. They had to cook their own food in the evening. I'll be my highlight. We we stopped at McDonald's on the way back
without you know, but it is good in a way that it's so not their norm. That that is such a treat
in what I did was amazing. Like to go through that we were like, Could we have been? Well, I was at ballet school when I was 11. So they were breaking our toes every Saturday morning to try and get them to bend also pretty hardcore by 11. But so yeah, he's got a rest day to day back on it again tomorrow, but I'm got what I'm working out the Juggle. They've all got all this ski training. One's got ice dancing training. Now starting one's got football training. Just kidding. We'll do it at the same time. Busy busy but I'm going to carry on I'm setting myself in my diary and writing just little goals that are very low for my mom the other day where we are putting our chat about training I'd like to set the bar quite low and you're going to achieve and you'll feel better than setting yourself that four hour run that you know is going to be a stretch to do and you're probably going to do two and a half hours and have to stop and then you fully done it but if you just set it low, you're going to achieve if you've got bit more energy you can always do a little bit more. I am struggling to get to the gym to the big weights Gary and I love my big weights but it's an hour that I don't have when I need to okay, I'm contemplating going on decathlon and buying a bench with some weights
finish to get Hinch bench I
can't get much more Hench Gary You've seen it
and shoulders they're quite impressive
they are good so that polling What do you reckon? I've had the okay from the old well some because it's not ball and chain as it has been when cockney slang
I don't know actually you're probably used it as well you use it if you're going to use it yeah in Britain use it so oh
yeah would use it, but to spit it's quite large, isn't it Poor delivery gear,
good bench, you know, you can't just go to Argos and get a three quid one because that is just a clotheshorse kind of work you need to
know but you need weights you know like there's no i There's no point me doing endless band work I need weights I'm that age and that strength that I need what I need to be squatting and been doing it. So we'll get down to the gym but and really this weekend, we can drop that in it. So just carry on as we all juggle, struggle juggle you've got you really need to taper taper madness. Now,
when you were talking about weights, I am still doing my strength conditioning. But this last two weeks a I'm moving it more to bodyweight as opposed to weights, I'm still studying the movements and I'm even because the last few weeks I've been pretty smashing their strength conditioning. So I may drop a couple of sessions and do more mobility work working on massage but still and that is keeping the knee up which is great.
Often love Yeah, I mean, it's an investment but it is just that heavy sound.
Sat there gathering dust for maybe six months and then I think it was it could have been broadly Sharp's podcast just alluded to maybe it's a think one of the guests you had on it was the pen and maybe it band and I think there's a few things going on. But yeah, definitely some relief on that. But yeah,
I mean, it's an expensive product, but it can do your IT band and it can do that bit in your soleus in behind your car, like sort of like that high. Right? Whereas like where I always get who when the massage lady sticks her elbow in it. Those two bits for me. I need can just sit and watch World Champs athletics.
I don't think mine is a super duper fancy one. I think I Googled top 10 Massage guns on the pound it was and it does. It's fine. It's
what does it need to do anything apart from just vibrate? That's great. It's great. It has got different heads. Yes, yes. But I don't like anyone apart from the big
Yeah, literally. That's the only one I use.
I tried the little pointy one. It's too intense. Very intense. We talked about Thera guns there are guns right what else you got some sessions
Yeah, five times three minutes. That is a big drop because the six times Columbia and the dean your minute your miles would vary from say maybe I don't know say 350 to a five and a half minute miles depending on the section the Dean so it's good to get back to times and five threes and I think there's two minutes rest so that is a big drop in it's about 15 minutes of effort. So that's a big drop and it will be evaluated a 30 minute threshold one but I think I might only do a 20 minute might head off to parkrun again and do that I really do. I'm kicking this weekend also should be FC half marathon run 30 miles and I do fancy on back of the legs but I've got so much on my plate I'm gonna tissue fi we'll manage that but then on the Sunday with the dome course half marathon I'm either gonna go and just spectate offer my services in Marshall or my goal and film it and do we have a school here with the cameras and trying to fly the drone into the sea or anybody else that will be a success if
anyone's head the lawsuit that could then follow
Yeah, that's quite
fun podcast recording time.
Yeah, that would be quite a stressful thing. So yeah, I've got one of those three things will happen on the Sunday and then now I'm just getting the kit together. I'm pretty much there with shoes Adelaide shoe change a bit more comfort over like this. And I'm probably going to use the the Kinabalu twos the Scott kind of policies they've got an extra few but five mil extra cushioning. I was gonna go for the Scott Supertruck RCS they're quite the light recent shoe they've got quite a good grip on them but yeah, like this I run in those law, but 400 Miles they're a bit more of a respite. There's more room in the toolbox for the Coronavirus or they might unaware of within both Bigarade sad case and I'm only bought 2030 grammes per shoe so that's not the end of the world. So I'm going to go with that. I've lost annoyingly I've lost my itis top that I bought from Scott and they have lost it so it's gone so I can't wear that anymore. So it's pretty much gonna look like
when you lose stuff because you like many of you taking your talk off Gary and left To
probably just fall on the floor when I've been parked up after a run or a race or something that's probably where he's I'm hoping that it's been popped in one of the kids drawers when especially if it's a darker colour. Yeah. You're currently it's not going to be this top I was hoping it would be but yeah, I'm gonna look like a spot a spot a Scott sponsored athlete which is not
passing his pins
Yeah, you keep passing points to that because you're getting the kid together starting to do all that kind of stuff. And other than that, yes Karina is about 50 Something miles for the week 54 miles so that's good. 60 Odd miles last week so yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's great times are you saying you've got more time it's awesome.
No, so much more time don't really feel much better than normally in the intake per week. How do I normally do more than this?
I'm doubling not because I'm not running wreck. So I'm walking more so it seems so he's gonna get a couple of miles after this podcast and our job to work after that. But yeah, it's nice nice times.
Competition Well, there's no other theme that we could have won a competition for ages have we there's no other thing that we could have apart from it's hard. It's hard. It's getting hot in here. I won't carry on with that as long as it's going places we shouldn't be you want to see your pictures of either running in the heatwave or cooling off really we want to see how you called off doggies cooling off though like going to get loads of stars or cooling off Pics or maybe like an amazing the sun. For those lots of people I saw getting up early to go and do their runs. So I'll pop a post on Facebook you go over there picture up maybe a little explanation of the picture if you want to. If not let the picture speak for itself. And you can be in a chance to win a box box or to have to actually charge goodies. Competition closes on the third of August
we'll be confused this one is it's a one star but I'll start reading it so I think I'm hoping that was just a little bit of admin error that he or she did when they did the review but yeah, Ripa time.
Well yeah, surely it must be Annapurna. Why would you don't catch up on a one star review? Is this terrible? Are you
here Yeah, we put time on third of December 2022 left to review only came across this post pandemic but I'm catching up on all the 120 episodes. Oh, well, definitely. It's a mistake. Go through it or to athlete Sedgefield Harrier
Oh, did I make mistake sorry typo. Edwina all two athletes Koch living in France and Gary. Sedgefield. Harrier roulette. I'm not sure I can second that the so called pits were Ultra
havenly. No odd because he's catching up on the episode. So maybe you are just to Sedgefield. harian, early days lined with grains going where you're credible second place, five minor, and perhaps seen a trophy cabinet that is growing behind us.
We have a lively chat for interviewing guests always interested in Do you have good chemistry and cover all manner of ruling topics inviting guests from many Ultra features Bob Graham completions, spine Cup champions, sports scientists and shoe expert Eddie is particularly sharp in his observations. There's nothing about me there either. But they complement each other so well the clotting factor
at the time means by particularly sharp and our observations should I be complimented?
I think you're stupid. I think that's good, and you're witty and sharp.
Do you think slightly rude?
I'd always take the positive.
Anyway, on sale, but we still love the comments. We love all the comments, but nothing mean because we can't we're both a little bit highly emotional.
Very sensitive, actually. Yeah.
Yeah, to be fair, let's be fair, Gary sensitive. That was episode 99. Do you like a 99? Gary?
I love an 8999 which is the 999 means it's got the sleek that's what makes
that's it? Isn't it really crappy? Processed ice cream. And mist.
What's your favourite ice cream?
Vanilla? Super simple. Standard. What about you?
Well, I do love vanilla. I like a mint chocolate chip. And I like it was a Mars bar. No sorry a Snickers ice cream.
Oh no, no, no, I don't like I don't wouldn't have anything from the from that.
Statue ice cream. Yeah.
I like it's not fresh. I'm not. I'm
not so keen when the colours start. Corn like if it's like a bubble gum and it's blue I don't want to go down that street. That's why you just assume sounds nice tiramisu ice cream. That'd be good.
Oh, we can't we're not going for an ice cream together. At least you won't eat any of mine if you're just getting
you know I love George we've got an ice cream chat George is such a messy eater. I do the dad tidied up of the ice cream
or roids the same all around like and then I'm like there's a bit I don't know I don't
like about to ice I'll get an ice cream in a half hour because all my tidying up of George's ice cream
but this is this is how fair all my kids are gone the last week when we've just been kind of like chill. It's been you know, chillin by the lakes and stuff. Evie had a chocolate ice cream. We have ice cream a day during the summer because you know what was like when she got chocolate like upper cheek the day later, it's still there. Anyway, that was episode 99 Thanks for listening, everyone and thank you to chia charge for continuing to support the show sending bars to guests future and past competition winners keeping Gary and I fueled and all our adventures, especially upcoming races, and generally being an all round super support everybody out on the trails. I'm Eddie Sutton,
and I'm Gary Thwaites
and let's run to the hills.